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Old 20-02-2008, 17:41   #1
alanwoo
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Invest in hosting business

Let say I have SGD 2 million, do you think I should keep this money in bank, do nothing, get a 2% interest and earn SGD 40,000 a year.

or to invest/buy a hosting company that have a potential to earn more than SGD 40,000 a year.

What kind of risk and what is the possible return that I am getting.

What kind of valuatio/price on the current market for 1 web hosting account ?

Thanks

Alan
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Old 20-02-2008, 18:02   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwoo
Let say I have SGD 2 million, do you think I should keep this money in bank, do nothing, get a 2% interest and earn SGD 40,000 a year.

or to invest/buy a hosting company that have a potential to earn more than SGD 40,000 a year.

What kind of risk and what is the possible return that I am getting.

What kind of valuatio/price on the current market for 1 web hosting account ?

Thanks

Alan
I would advise you to invest it, and ask fundmanagers to help you to manage your funds. Fund managers should be able to provide you returns of more than 20%. I've seen fund managers who have managed portfolios and have in some cases increased the funds in the portfolio by more than 80% per annum.

And probably if you can wait (For a year or two), most financial analyst expect the world to go into a depression after the Olympics, thus during that period of time, if you start buying over companies doing hosting, its not too late, and in fact, you might be able to go for the bigger companies (Since now that you have more funds).

But then again, it depends on where you would want to lay your hands on. United states is a place which you would want to lay your hands off, unless that company is of a big enough size.
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Old 20-02-2008, 18:06   #3
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Putting money in bank is not an option if you ask me.

Your money will lose value over time after calculating for inflation. Inflation is going to get higher and higher while the bank interest rate is going to fall lower and lower. If you notice the trend over the last few years, the banks are cutting back on interest rate. It is more worth it to put your money in some sort of managed fund.

For investment in hosting business, if the core business of the hosting company is in dedicated hosting, you probably want to save the money.
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Old 20-02-2008, 18:16   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwoo
Let say I have SGD 2 million, do you think I should keep this money in bank, do nothing, get a 2% interest and earn SGD 40,000 a year.

or to invest/buy a hosting company that have a potential to earn more than SGD 40,000 a year.

What kind of risk and what is the possible return that I am getting.

What kind of valuatio/price on the current market for 1 web hosting account ?

Thanks

Alan
Personally I have put my money in Prudential China-India fund and Singapore Managed fund. The growth is quite good and much better than the banks.

Investing in hosting companies usually do not pay off as the big guys like Google are moving their foot into the business

On a side note, probably you can consider buying off a stake in Orynet if what they mentioned on the website is true - "From year 2004 to year 2007, our sales increased more than 100% per year."
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Old 20-02-2008, 18:22   #5
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BTW you won 4D or TOTO?
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Old 20-02-2008, 18:29   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LampPC
For investment in hosting business, if the core business of the hosting company is in dedicated hosting, you probably want to save the money.
Exactly what i thought.

Anything, but pure web hosting.
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Old 20-02-2008, 20:34   #7
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Quote:
On a side note, probably you can consider buying off a stake in Orynet if what they mentioned on the website is true - "From year 2004 to year 2007, our sales increased more than 100% per year."
This is the great things about web hosting, if the exiting customer stay, and you continue to acquire new customer, you can hit more than 100% sales increase per year.

Given the high risk in the current volatile financial market, bonds, shares, I dont recommend to invest in these area. (This is for high risk taker, the higher the risk the better the return)

I already running a hosting company, just would like to find out more on what kind of valuation on acquiring a hosting company, is it worth to do so.

eg. How much to pay for acquire 1 hosting customer (shared hosting).

Thanks
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Old 20-02-2008, 20:59   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwoo
This is the great things about web hosting, if the exiting customer stay, and you continue to acquire new customer, you can hit more than 100% sales increase per year.

Given the high risk in the current volatile financial market, bonds, shares, I dont recommend to invest in these area. (This is for high risk taker, the higher the risk the better the return)

I already running a hosting company, just would like to find out more on what kind of valuation on acquiring a hosting company, is it worth to do so.

eg. How much to pay for acquire 1 hosting customer (shared hosting).

Thanks
It actually depends. Depending on the company that you would like to acquire on, different companies have different rates. There is no such thing as a 'fixed' rate. Normally, we base it on their available assets, and adding on a few times of their current income.
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Old 20-02-2008, 22:02   #9
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I would put the money in some trust funds rather than invest in hosting, I think it is too competitative.
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Old 22-02-2008, 02:03   #10
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Quote:
I would put the money in some trust funds rather than invest in hosting, I think it is too competitative.
If you look at the current market, you may even lose your capital depends on the trust funds you choose.

I not interested in acquiring their assets, more on acquiring their customer base.

Let say if I were to spend S$500 dollar on advertising, and the results is 20 customer sign up for a hosting plan, then the cost to acquire 1 customer is S$25. Alternately I also paying S$20-S$40 dollar commission for referral who refer me a new customer.

Is my above valuation for 1 hosting account worth S$30 (on average) reasonable ? In this case, a small hosting company with 300 hosting accounts merely worth S$9000 ? may not be, as you may acquire a customer that wont renew their plan, or you may acquire a customer that stay with you for the next 10 years.

Lets assume customer acquired that will stay with you for:
0 Year 30%
1 Year 70%
2 Year 60%
3 Year 50%
5 Year 30%
10 Year 10%

Based on the above assumption, it may worth to spend more to acquire customer.

What's ur thought, how much require to spend to acquire a new customer ?
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Old 22-02-2008, 06:47   #11
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You don't forget something, the datacentre costs can climb so profitable or not is a big matter even if you have the clients.
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Old 22-02-2008, 17:57   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwoo
If you look at the current market, you may even lose your capital depends on the trust funds you choose.

I not interested in acquiring their assets, more on acquiring their customer base.

Let say if I were to spend S$500 dollar on advertising, and the results is 20 customer sign up for a hosting plan, then the cost to acquire 1 customer is S$25. Alternately I also paying S$20-S$40 dollar commission for referral who refer me a new customer.

Is my above valuation for 1 hosting account worth S$30 (on average) reasonable ? In this case, a small hosting company with 300 hosting accounts merely worth S$9000 ? may not be, as you may acquire a customer that wont renew their plan, or you may acquire a customer that stay with you for the next 10 years.

Lets assume customer acquired that will stay with you for:
0 Year 30%
1 Year 70%
2 Year 60%
3 Year 50%
5 Year 30%
10 Year 10%

Based on the above assumption, it may worth to spend more to acquire customer.

What's ur thought, how much require to spend to acquire a new customer ?
Buying companies may not work if there is a culture cash between you and the company you are buying over. If I am not wrong there used to be one company who on a buying spree for local web hosting companies but it have since then switch to internet marketing field.

One purchase can give you extra revenue or hundreds of frustrated customers who do not like your company style of operation. So it is a 50/50 chance of getting higher revenue or frustrated customers. Usually the customers from the bought host will not be happy with the decision.
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Old 22-02-2008, 18:28   #13
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actually i find hosting or IT this business to be worth the investment.

the fact that nowadays, to move from one host to another is not easy (switch host). there are many things involved like getting the domain transferred and most people are not confident of doing so. this would mean that customer would tend to stick to your company as long as it live.

i seen alot of company even in sgwht going through merger and consolidation which is part of this industry. these consolidation is made easier with newer technologies and methodogy surfacing like virtualisation.

i am looking more to the brand of the company? the clientele's profile? the expertise?just to name some criteria to consider.
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Old 24-02-2008, 11:38   #14
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buying over a hosting company can be complicate and high cost compare to just acquire their customer base. Let say a web design company, want to just focus on web-design, and sell away their hosting customer to a hosting company.

Yes, there maybe happy and unhappy customer, depends on the situation, if the existing customer is happy with their existing provider, then they may feel unsecure to move to a new provider, but if the existing customer already no so happy with their existing provider, they may feel differently.

And what "yonghan" mentioned is another good point, regarding "branding"

if the hosting company have a much better branding(well known) than the hosting company they acquired, the customer maybe will feel more secured.

thanks for both of your feedback, i try to work out a way to estimate the value of a "hosting account", i will post up my formula after I consolidate all this information.
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Old 24-02-2008, 13:28   #15
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Just a word of caution on buying customer base.

There should be only one option for them as in they must 100% move over to you. And in order to do that, there must be no change unless for the better. Of course, the above exclude those who are not binded in contractual terms and maybe you wanna buy only customer base that are presently binded.

$2million dollars are too little for a fund manager to play the game well. I would probably spend a little fraction to do a detailed research and coming up with a business plan. Evaluate all the options and how to execute.
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Old 13-03-2008, 13:02   #16
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Hi Alan,

How about buying over / starting a new data centre??? We can move all our servers to you and let everyone benefit.
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Old 13-03-2008, 13:47   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkloo@Netsarius
Hi Alan,

How about buying over / starting a new data centre??? We can move all our servers to you and let everyone benefit.
2 millions not enough to buy over any data centre.

Starting a small scale and green data centre will be good. Imagine using solar power to make up part of the electricity cost.
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Old 13-03-2008, 15:31   #18
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Quote:
Hi Alan,

How about buying over / starting a new data centre??? We can move all our servers to you and let everyone benefit.
Yes, I am moving toward that direction. Will keep you updated on the progress.

Can PM me how many servers you have. Thanks.

Quote:
Starting a small scale and green data centre will be good. Imagine using solar power to make up part of the electricity cost.
I have evaluate this as well, it just that the high cost to install solar panel take more than 15 year to break even in terms of energy saving.
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Old 03-04-2008, 17:02   #19
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Hi,

Thanks for all the feedback, given the current market conditions, and the demand for data center space is increasing, I have a more concrete idea moving towards on building up a new data center in Singapore.

I may need some expert advise on the following topic:

1. selecting the location
- Do you mind if I build the data center in Tuas, if the space is cheaper ? or you will prefer the data center to be in CBD area which is more acessible ? near to MRT ?

2. power supply requirement
- where can I find a building that have dual-power feed from difference power sub-station. How much power(electricity) do I need, let say to build a 300 rack data center.

3. what tiers the data center ?
- should the data center need all the N+1 or N+2 equipment or just redundancy willl do ?

4. what kind of pricing per rack to charge to end-user ? S$1000per rack, S$2000per rack or S$3000per rack.

5. bandwidth
- what kind of mixture of bandwidth required ?

Alan
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Old 03-04-2008, 21:43   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwoo
Hi,

Thanks for all the feedback, given the current market conditions, and the demand for data center space is increasing, I have a more concrete idea moving towards on building up a new data center in Singapore.

I may need some expert advise on the following topic:

1. selecting the location
- Do you mind if I build the data center in Tuas, if the space is cheaper ? or you will prefer the data center to be in CBD area which is more acessible ? near to MRT ?

2. power supply requirement
- where can I find a building that have dual-power feed from difference power sub-station. How much power(electricity) do I need, let say to build a 300 rack data center.

3. what tiers the data center ?
- should the data center need all the N+1 or N+2 equipment or just redundancy willl do ?

4. what kind of pricing per rack to charge to end-user ? S$1000per rack, S$2000per rack or S$3000per rack.

5. bandwidth
- what kind of mixture of bandwidth required ?

Alan

To your questions:
1: Normally people prefer a place where is accesible. Probably not in the CBD area (Due to the ERP and lack of carpark space...Possibly expensive rental), but closer to ammenities like MRT of major Bus Interchange.

2: Some power stations offer more competitive prices. Do check with indiviual power stations. I'm aware that places like Tuas power station offer cheaper prices for power. Certain areas do have dual feedsources. But, if there isn't, you do not have to worry. Alternatively, you can run your own generators. CNG generators are quite eco-friendly, generally slightly cheaper and due to the cost of CNG or other alternative sources, you can save quite alot and power your own datacenter. On top of that, it is best if you can maximise the free energy sources. One good area to step in is Solar Energy. Even though they are generally expensive, but mostly it is a one time charge and factories even use it to power their machineries(Esp. those green ones in Japan), thus i think it should not be a problem to at least power the lights and probably to some extent the air-con.

3: A normal N+1 is more than enough. Unless you intend to market yourself as a upmarketed company.

4: Again, this is your decision. Lots of companies are offering such services at quite high prices. It might do you some good if you can break into the cheaper market. Another thing is that even if you offer expensive prices or cheaper ones, equipments should not be something that you should save on. Even though more advanced and better planning of the datacenter would result in more money spent on construction, but in the longer term running, you can save bulks.

5: This area depends on how you intend to market your product. But then again, some companies offer cheap IP Transiting. An example is that in the US i'm using Hurricane Electric for my racks at certain cities. And these racks that i'm using HE, they charge be about US$5-6/mbps for a GBP connection with IPv4 and IPv6 added on. As long as your bandwidth provider can peer to Level3 and Cogent, you should be very much safe.
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Old 03-04-2008, 22:31   #21
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Hi Sir,

Are you guys discussing about investing in D/C or building a D/C,
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:05   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwoo
Yes, I am moving toward that direction. Will keep you updated on the progress.

Can PM me how many servers you have. Thanks.



I have evaluate this as well, it just that the high cost to install solar panel take more than 15 year to break even in terms of energy saving.
Alan let me know if you are interested in joint investing, we are also interested in building a dc in singapore.
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Old 05-04-2008, 04:36   #23
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2.5M maybe can built a data center with 180 racks with a NOC room and a UPS room like the qala idc.

How about the running cost and operating cost out front?

I have some bad witness regards the acquire company and wish to share for caution.

A company acquire another company with all proper legal aspect and after acquired found themselve had to inject another 1M to paid off all the outstanding bill which invoice the company date after all the legal aspect.

Acquire is not a good choice at this uncertain period.

I have been supporting the companies in Tuas area for more then 3 years and travel to Tuas is something not so convinent especially at non-peak hours for those did not drive.

The government is encourage people to give up driving, so get a industry area which very near the MRT is a good choice and now most of the industry area is dual power source ready, just check with the building management for dual power source availability within their builder and SP for confirmation will do.

So far no data center in Woodlands and in front of Woodlands MRT, there is a industry area in walking distance.

And the best of this industry area is you can order rack and chassis at the manufacture price just a few block distance.
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Old 05-04-2008, 04:36   #24
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2.5M maybe can built a data center with 180 racks with a NOC room and a UPS room like the qala idc.

How about the running cost and operating cost out front?

I have some bad witness regards the acquire company and wish to share for caution.

A company acquire another company with all proper legal aspect and after acquired found themselve had to inject another 1M to paid off all the outstanding bill which invoice the company date after all the legal aspect.

Acquire is not a good choice at this uncertain period.

I have been supporting the companies in Tuas area for more then 3 years and travel to Tuas is something not so convinent especially at non-peak hours for those did not drive.

The government is encourage people to give up driving, so get a industry area which very near the MRT is a good choice and now most of the industry area is dual power source ready, just check with the building management for dual power source availability within their builder and SP for confirmation will do.

So far no data center in Woodlands and in front of Woodlands MRT, there is a industry area in walking distance.

And the best of this industry area is you can order rack and chassis at the manufacture price just a few block distance.
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Old 07-04-2008, 00:44   #25
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Hi,

Anyone can recommend a industrial building that have roof space or land space for placement of backup generator ?

I have been sourcing for such a building but find none.

Thanks

Alan
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Old 07-04-2008, 00:56   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwoo
Hi,

Anyone can recommend a industrial building that have roof space or land space for placement of backup generator ?

I have been sourcing for such a building but find none.

Thanks

Alan
I saw a post regarding industrial space at 2 Chin Bee road. It is around 16,000 square feet at $1.5 psf.
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Old 08-04-2008, 00:37   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanwoo
Anyone can recommend a industrial building that have roof space or land space for placement of backup generator ?
Like the PacNet DC at BLK 16, rental a few car park lots from the industrial building.

Or you can rental a 1 storey building like the Marsilling Ind. Est. unit.

Very big inside and you can park your generator outside the building at the ramp belong to you for car parking.

I learn from my friend that to shift that S$500K generator, it take another S$500K inclusive the insurance and the crane that capable to lift up that generator, so have to very careful in selecting the location for DC.
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